Friday, August 24, 2007

"Anonymous" Drama Spreads To Other Blogs

This Anonymous raid is still dragging on. It's moved on to other blogs. Some of them belong to people that I actually care about. Unfortunately, my friend Thin Black Duke made some comments about it and I think that they were made with good intentions. His stance is that Anonymous' actions are wrong and that it doesn't matter who their targets were. I think this is where we part ways on this issue. You see, I think it does matter who is being targeted here.

These things don't happen in a vacuum. This has been a long time in the make. The people involved--the ones that are now trying to position themselves as victims--have been the main individuals who have condoned, promoted and perpetrated the outing of women on the internet as of late. Try as I might, I can't have sympathy for someone who is guilty of the same sort of victimization that they are now facing. I just can't do it. These are the people who egged on Encyclopedia Dramatica when it suited them. And now we're supposed to have pity for them? I'm sorry, but it ain't gonna happen here.

I'm not going to say that it's wrong for Thin Black Duke to be upset about what's going on. In fact, it's his ability to empathize with others that makes me so attached to him. I seriously view him like a brother. When I was having a really serious crisis and my doctors and I weren't sure if I was going to see this one through, he really comforted me. Yeah, I know some people discount internet friendships as not quite "real" but he's one of the few people I've encountered who I would actually go to bat for even if I never ever met him in person.

Perhaps it's a personal fault with me. It's just that, I know they are hateful liars. I know they are racists. I know they are ableist. I know they are transphobes. I'm just not able to erase that from my mind when I hear about these people. I'd been discussing this on Duke's blog but I think it all became too much for him. I'm posting my response to Cheryl Seelhoff's latest bull that she left in his post. When I see her feigning innocence, I just feel more certain that this is no one worth feeling sorry for. I've included all of the relevant links for anyone who hasn't been following this entire saga. I think this will show where things REALLY began, despite Heart's protestations.

Cheryl: No radfem has threatened anyone with rape, murder, slitting their throat, fucking them in the wounds. No radfem has published personal information, phone numbers, fax numbers, addresses, photos of people’s children, and ongoing threats to the internet. No radfem has urged others to do all of the above.

You must enjoy being proven a liar, Heart. It's all still available for everyone to see. Your buddy Stormcloud threatened that unless Renegade never opens her mouth and speaks up about radical feminists again, she would publish her private information. She was "nice" enough to start with posting Ren's real name and then telling her that her next move would be to put up photos of her face without the eyemarks blacked out to shield her identity because she is a sex worker. In this same post, you can see numerous self-identified rad-fems condoning Stormcloud's actions. Of course, this isn't an isolated incident with your pal Stormy. She tried to blackmail Antiprincess just a few months before.

There's also your buddy Pony/Sis who had a lot of fun calling Renegade Evolution a whore and a dog and calling those who defended her johns. Of course, there's also her "house nigger" reference in the same post. Yet you're still entertaining this person on your blog.

And then there's Luckynkl. I'm going to post the entire message that she sent calling Brownfemipower a dog because it needs to be seen:

Women of color are oppressive? LOL. That’s a good one. Almost as funny as saying white women are oppressive.
Women, regardless of race, class, creed or color, do not have the power to oppress, ok? The best that any woman can do is ally with male power. Women do that in part by using a sequitor before the word “woman,” be it a race, nationality, creed, color or what have you. All that means is that you are the property of the men of that chosen category and are being bred like a domesticated dog to reproduce and suppy members to those various teams of men so they continue with their beloved hierarchies and playing their favorite game of “King of the Hill.” They then take turns throwing each other off the top of the hill and being king. No race, color, class or creed of men have clean hands. They all love, participate in and support this game and each has had their turn. Their only complaint being when they’re not the ones on top and making all the kingly rules.
Women are not allowed to play this game, ok? Their only role is to supply members to men’s chosen teams.
So what is a white woman? She is simply a woman that has been determined to be acceptable for white males to breed with to insure the continuation of his team. Same goes for black women, red women, brown women, Jewish women, Amish woman, Mexican women, Japanese women or what have you.
We have another name for this. It’s called “animal husbandry.” But instead of producing German Shepherds and Chihuahuas, women are being bred to produce the various races, creeds, colors, nationalities, etc.. Because men need heirs to continue playing the game. Unable to reproduce themselves, they must control those who do. Women.
The battle has been over what it’s always been over. The battle over the uterus and who gets to control it. Because he who rules reproduction can control the world. Sexism can be found at the root of it all and racism is born of it.
Unlike sexism, racism is relative. It depends on which region of the world we’re talking about and what time period. White men may be the dominant group in America, but that’s not the case in China, now is it? And it sure wasn’t the case in America a few hundred years ago when Native Americans ruled the roost. In fact, Ghenghis Khan was the greatest conqueror of all time. Here’s a newsflash. He wasn’t a white boy.
Until y’all get this, you will completely miss the boat and be complicit in the hierarchies of the patriarchy and insure the continuation of men’s favorite game.
In the meanwhile, y’all sound like sisters squabbling over which daughter daddy decides to bestow favor on. A daddy that will inevitably be replaced by another daddy who will choose another daughter to bestow favor upon.
So when do you get it that none of the sisters have any power or say-so? And that it’s all up to daddy? That women have no more power than men’s dogs? Sure the dog may live in a mansion and eat steak every night and even have a chauffered limosine. But is it the dog that has power?
Think about it. And then stop being such tools. In the meanwhile, here’s a bone, Fido. Go fetch

Nobody cares whether you blogroll them. After this thread over at Brownfemipower's site no one I know wanted to have anything to do with you.

What you deserve is for some one else to determine. I'm simply not feeling sorry for you...especially when you were lauding the actions of Encyclopedia Dramatica when they outed people last year. I guess we weren't supposed to remember that, were we?


Anonymous said...

"She's got a point there, kids."

At the same time, I don't blame Kevin; he was being a mensch, is all, same as he's been for any number of feminists and women--friends and otherwise--who've been attacked in other circumstances. And as I just told some earnest little nony, um, no, no one's buying that all of y'all were -just- concerned about potential child abuse; hey, flooding strangers with hateful trolls and DoS attacks and even cruelly crank calling the kid, dude, here comes the frigging Nobel Committe, really.

on the other hand, yeah, Heart, maybe none of y'all have specifically threatened/trolled someone with rape and penetrating the knife wounds; but, somehow, (starting with the litany right here; there's plenty more), I -don't- think you get a medal for that -either.-

"Hey, at least -I- never lured small children into a crawlspace, killed and then ate them! Go me!"


Anonymous said...

I mean, now that the smelling salts and Dudley Do-Rights and all seem to be doing their job, one might hope that some wimmin could put a pause on the endless litany of the Wrong They Been Done to take -two minutes- to maybe acknowledge that some of the -myriad- of people who have bones to pick with them, might actually have legitimate bones. Not holding my breath, though.

Anonymous said...

...of course, at this point I gather it's a bit more personal than empathy for the womenfolk, seeing as how the charming l'il munchkins have been gleefully smacking the shiny bright red "racist epithets, whee!" button.

as I said over at AP's, one begins to feel a bit more sympathy for the "abortion into the 42nd trimester" position after a bit. I don't mean for poor Brandon, of course. But...for the wee bargain-basement Cartmans who think recycled Andrew Dice Clay routines are hi-larious, especially when flinging them at individual adults who happen to be getting in the way of their dubious fun. The little dears, the little dears.

"Of course your mother doesn't love you, snookums; no one does, how could they? You're horrible. Now fetch me my knitting needle."

ben said...

"Hey, at least -I- never lured small children into a crawlspace, killed and then ate them! Go me!"

That's quite possibly the best compliment evar. I heart you.

Frankly, I haven't touched this one because it doesn't help anything to give ED a more inflated sense of themselves. I mean really, the "we are legion" crap just comes across as pretty desperate at a point.

I agree with what Kevin is saying...that progressive bloggers can have no quarter with folks who are willing to shut down discussions, by DOS, by threats, by whatever...

Is heart being disingenuous in her complaints? Yeah, i'd say so. But stopped clocks are still right twice a day.

Renegade Evolution said...

I feel bad this is happening with Kevin, he is an upstanding gent in all ways.

But for this post, I do have to thank you.

bint alshamsa said...

Ren, I am still fuming over what they did to you. I refuse to let that shit just remain ignored while everyone sheds tears over the poor, poor oppressed special white ladies posse. I don't care if everyone hates me for saying all this stuff but I am still not going to pretend to be upset about this happening to them.

Kevin Andre Elliott said...

Bint -

1) I don't hate you. Nor am I mad at you. You'll have to do much more than express your opinion to get me to hate you. Although luring small children into a crawlspace, etc., would be a good start. :)

2) You are, of course, always welcome to post on my blog.

3) I don't think that condemning Anon's actions means that I'm excusing the bad behavior of Stormcloud, Pony, or anyone else. I know that's not what you're saying here, but I wanted to make that clear.

4) I apologize for the boring, list-style comment, but I have to go to work and can't comment extensively until later tonight and this seemed the easiest way to do so.


Nullifidian said...

Women are not allowed to play this game, ok?

So white women weren't expressing an oppressive power over Black men when they got them lynched for "insulting" said white women? Or is it the rad-fem position that they were merely pawns of white men, because they lacked cultural authority to go out and string up Blacks themselves? Or that they deserved it because they're all slavering bundles of mere sexual instinct?

On reflection, I probably don't want to know the answer to those questions; it would depress me too much.

I can't fault Kevin either, because he's clearly wanting to establish that denial-of-service attacks to say nothing of threats of rape and murder are absolutely out of the bounds of acceptable behavior. I wish we didn't live in a world where that kind of opposition to this brutal behavior has to be made explicit, but we do. However, I think kudos is due to you for pointing out that many of these people deserve censure for what they say, even when we are rallying to support their free speech.

Kevin Andre Elliott said...

Hey Bint, just clearing more things up. It's all clear to me now. I was a tad baffled at why you thought I wasn't going to allow you to comment on my blog anymore, and then I noticed that you had comments in my spam queue today. Y'see, any comment with more than three links instantly gets marked as spam because that's a common characteristic of spam. Unfortunately, I only check the spam queue every other day or so, so sometimes legitimate comments get stuck there. So sorry. I wasn't removing your comments. The blog thought you were spam is all.

Renegade Evolution said...

Bint & Kevin:

Ya both still rock and roll in my book.

Anonymous said...

Something new has come up.
Has anyone seen Heart's post Traveling While Poor? Now, the whole post isn't what I'm looking at--it's the posted cost for her trip.
She spent $615 total on plane and bus tickets for herself and her daughter. Now, if you look at her Getting to Michigan post...
She said she needed $1,236. In comment 17 she says she has already collected $879. That is the last time she actually says how much she has collected.
But in comment 35 she says she still needed $200 more. And in #40 she said she needed $110 more.
So, what did she do with all that extra money?
According to what she implies in her Traveling While Poor post she spent it on jewelry, books, soaps, handmade clothing, Festie wear, etc.

Apparently this is a valid use of the money donated to her because she spent it at women's shops...
Funny how she didn't post the great deal she got until a few weeks after the post asking for twice the amount. Moreover, she bought things--which is quite different from donating money.

belledame222 said...

On reflection, I probably don't want to know the answer to those questions; it would depress me too much.

Good call, especially if you're asking them of the source of that particular comment. although, I dunno, trying to communicate with a "Mars Attacks!" alien: is the feeling "depression," exactly, when one has received its response?

Daisy Deadhead said...

Heart is still using this whole thing as her raison d'ĂȘtre. We are NEVER going to hear the end of it, unfortunately.

Anonymous said...

Hi Bint, Michelle (from the discussion about gayness with your daughter here, now I know that anonymous is not the only other option :)

Anyway, here's a (slightly edited for the typos I saw after posting, though some of them have gone invisible again in this comment box) copy of a comment I just posted at Kevin's, FYI. It is as much in response to your entry as to what's going on over there. Arrrrrrgh!!!
Occasional lurker here. So I'm reading these comments and the ones over at bint's.

And: I'm not saying anything new in this comment, I don't think, just expressing some ... frustration, I guess.

So. IMO:

White women participating in and condoning attacks against other women, esp women of color, and then turning around and crying "someone is hurting **me** now, you must CARE!" is IMO a form of gendered racism. The specific construction of white female-ness in a white supremacist patriarchal society is totally rearing its head here.

And the fact that the white radfems are under attack does not, IMO, remove them from responsibility for how they are in their actions perpetuating these systems of domination. Nor does it erase the context and other pieces of the puzzle of how oppression and domination is actually playing out here.

Of course, they have a theory that removes them from responsibility. But that doesn't mean that these issues are actually irrelevant, it just means that the radfems and others who would uncritically support their actions have found ways to deny their relevance.

I believe that ALL of these dynamics are important to look at at the same time; they are connected. IMO it doesn't make sens to stand up as ally to "women" and be selective -- not recognize that women of color are women too and that white women participate in perpetuating the system too. It's part of the reality, the *whole* reality, of what is going on (not just "we deal with X over here and Y over there"). And white women being under attack should not be used an an excuse for selective vision of all of what is going on.

I don't understand why anyone would have to pick and choose which parts of the reality to deal with when all of these things are connected.


Again, nothing new in what I'm saying, just ... it's so frustrating and ugly. This script: We must all pick and choose what we decide to deal with at any given time, and so if we are choosing to deal with *this*, we can't simultaneously deal with *that* even if it is part of the same larger picture of dynamics of domination?

And anyone who says "that is also part of the picture" is what -- some sort of meanie? Grr.

Amber Rhea said...

Bint... this is perfect. You win. You just freaking WIN.

Nullifidian said...

Good call, especially if you're asking them of the source of that particular comment. although, I dunno, trying to communicate with a "Mars Attacks!" alien: is the feeling "depression," exactly, when one has received its response?

It depresses me when I think that this whole situation arises because these women use feminism as a cover for perpetuating hierarchies of race, class, ableism, and gender socialization (the transphobic things I read from the white rad-fem blogging community is enough to make one's hair stand up on end).

I also am extremely doubtful about whether the Anonymous episode was at all for the good. They couched their "humor" in racist and misogynist terms, because those things are so obviously funny. Just like Michael Kramer, right? Lynching jokes are a real laugh riot. So, we have people with this very retrograde worldview (whether they'd admit it or not) attacking rad-fem which can be milked for sympathy, and I know we're going to be hearing about it for years. Any criticism of the rad-fems is now going to be met with "Well, you're just as bad as Anonymous" and any potential dissent is going to be ignored all because of a bunch of het up jackasses who wouldn't know Mary Daly from Tyne Daly decided to stick their collective oar in.

That depresses me, but perhaps I'm being too pessimistic. However, in dealing with the rad-fem community (which is an outright mockery of the real radical, anti-authoritarian feminists I know) I've found that one can never be too pessimistic.

belledame222 said...

I also am extremely doubtful about whether the Anonymous episode was at all for the good. They couched their "humor" in racist and misogynist terms, because those things are so obviously funny. Just like Michael Kramer, right? Lynching jokes are a real laugh riot. So, we have people with this very retrograde worldview (whether they'd admit it or not) attacking rad-fem which can be milked for sympathy, and I know we're going to be hearing about it for years.

Ayuh, sums it up.

"plague on both your houses" doesn't sell real well these days i guess...