Monday, July 28, 2008

Hahaha! Isn't The Racism Clever?

You know, it think it's really sad how often the same one or two self-identified "radical feminists" are involved when there are outbreaks of racism in the feminist blogosphere. This repulsive woman never stops.

Here's the background story:

After Cheryl Lindsey Seelhoff (aka Heart aka CrunchGranolaDyke aka AmazonHeart) posted the above picture on her blog, several people of color began to point out how racist and sexist it was. I mean, it's not like the idea of swarthy men looking like animals salivating over a naive, long-haired, wispy, white blonde is exactly a new idea, now is it? But, of course, we aren't really capable of deciding what is and isn't racist and so we need our great white savior, Cheryl to decide this for us:

The men in the cartoon are not men of color only. They are white men and men of color both. Men of color patronize strip bars just like white men do. Strippers are also white and of color.

The cartoon is not racist.

All men have sex privilege over all women, of whatever race. Men of color objectify both women of color and white women, just as white men do. Men of color patronize prostitutes, use pornography, just as white men do, and the women prostituted are women of color and white women.

That is what is true.

No more foolishness or stupidity from the two of you. Don’t comment here anymore, you are not here in good faith. I’ve encountered your type before many times, one too many times in fact — you are sexist, misogynist liberals who, when push comes to shove, do not give one good goddamn for women. You will sell your sisters out in a heartbeat.


We have those who would deny women the agency to decide what they will do with their bodies now telling us what we can and can not call racism. How (un)surprising!


You are not one of our sisters, Cheryl. You are no friend to people of color and especially not to women of color. You are a racist, pure and simple. You are known for this stuff all throughout the blogosphere. Of course you support other people's racist depictions of people of color; it's the same behavior you engage in so why wouldn't you support it? You are not a feminist. You are not even an ally to feminists. You are the same bigoted arse that you were before you left the fundamentalist right-wing movement when you were no longer allowed to be a leader in it (the "liberals" line is hilarious because it's the same label you tried to use against REAL radical feminists back then). There are still women who remember you from then and see you being the same person today.

P.S. This month's Special White Woman award goes out to Pony/Sis for the following comment:

I kill myself laughing at BelleDame et al’s frantic desperation. No logic can throw the truth, but still they go their usual pathetic route.
Losing hard? Throw the racism hat in the ring. It’ so convenient, and soooo disturbing.
But at their friend AmPimp’s?
Oh yes, you know us women of color just love accusing you innocent white women of racism for no reason at all and not because, you know, you actually are being racist, right? Is it okay for a colored girl like me to point out how this comment of her's is identical to the sentiments expressed by men whenever women point out their misogyny? Maybe one of the decent white folks on that thread could let me know if I'm getting too uppity again. Y'all definitely know what's best for us, after all, right?


Nine Deuce, the other white woman who thought that posting this racist and sexist cartoon would be a great idea, has decided that she isn't really able to deal with people questioning her theories. Here's what I wrote in response to this comment directed at me:

(Her words are italicized and my responses are underneath each part in regular text)

Nine Deuce,

I didn’t apologize. You need to acknowledge your own mischaracerizations.

Is it a mischaracterization to say that telling someone "Sorry" is a form of apologizing? Ah well, even if you don't apologize, you have acknowledged the fact that I did not say you claimed science is irrelevant. That's close enough for me. :)

Science, in the sense that jerry is referring to it, is a European product. It’s an Enlightenment product, to be exact.

If Jerry claimed that he was referring to an Enlightenment product, I must have missed that thread. On this one, I've seen him refer to sexual dimorphism, sexual selection, evolutionary biology. All of these are science topics, the science that predates the Enlightenment period. Furthermore, your questions and comments were directed to me and I certainly wasn't referring to any "Enlightenment product".

I am more aware than you have any way of knowing that plenty of discoveries and technological advances took place outside of modern Europe. Anyone making the opposite assumption would be foolish.

If you knew this, then why would you claim that science was founded by "European dudes"? Even what they did develop was built upon what existed before the Enlightenment. There's simply no factual basis for claiming that "European dudes" founded science.

As for Foucault, I’d be a goddamed idiot if I wrote off every white dude because he was a white dude. I am just saying that we ought to examine the sources and possible biases of all of our assumptions about the source of knowledge.

Well, I can certainly agree that WE should do that. Of course, that "we" also includes those who may think that the observation of prostitution sans objectification in other species isn't really an important means of understanding the behavior of "sex-positive" dudes (and everyone else). It also includes those who would try to use science to invalidate all other sources of knowledge. As a woman of color, I have seen how whites and their western culture tries to invalidate anything it can't co-opt, so I have no desire to see all the other "authorities" kept out of the equation when we (people) are trying to determine what is and isn't "true".

I don’t particularly like Foucault, but that idea is present in a lot of his work.

Nor do I. I don't need any white man's opinion in order for me to understand science and it's implications. If we're going to criticize white male dominance, then I think it would be a great start if we stopped looking to them for guidance about what philosophical theories we should believe in. But hey, I guess that's just the womanist in me.

We might define the true source of knowledge for ourselves, but our definitions are heavily influenced by forces that exist before we develop critical thinking ability.

This is too, true! I think it can be easier to see how others are influenced by dominant forces than it is to see how we are influenced by it. For instance, it might be easier for you to see if I have a bias that favors empiricism and it might be easier for me to see if you have a bias that favors white, Western culture.

You are off topic and boorish.

Boorish? Have I hurt your feelings or sensitivities in some way?

She wouldn't post what I wrote to her but she responded to it here.

This has been quite an interesting exchange, interesting and amusing.

Nine Deuce = Science Fail


Anonymous said...

ick. this is why I never liked you. You're a hater. and scary.

bint alshamsa said...

Oh noez, anonymous doesn't like me! Maybe if you play the defenseless white woman routine a little while longer, I'll start to feel sorry for you. Hey, stranger things have happened, I suppose.

By the way, if you never liked me, why are you here commenting?

nixwilliams said...

Men of color patronize strip bars just like white men do. Strippers are also white and of color.

The cartoon is not racist.

WOW! i believe the phrase i'm looking for here is "LEARN TO LOGIC".

Ravenmn said...

That's rather draw-droppingly clueless.

Maybe I should print the cartoon out at work and use the fancy color-analysis machine to determine exactly how much darker the skin of ALL of the men in that image is than the skin of the woman. Do you think scientific proof like that would have an effect?

Nah. Me neither.

It is amazing how easy it is to see sexism everywhere but racism is a rare exotic creature that cannot exist in her world. This still applies.

Sarah J said...

ooooooohhh noooooes. someone doesn't like you!

next they'll be saying "I won't be reading here again."

It's always fun to flag those ones on the stat tracker and watch their IP's continue to show up.

And isn't it funny how they never leave a name?

Maegan la Mala said...

I've purposely avoided all things Heart related because of people reporting shit like this. Somewhere deep inside I think she does it on purpose to piss people off and draw attention, which is why I stay away.

I mean the image remind me of the whole Amanda Marcotte incident where people were all like: What do you mean dark men going after a white blonde woman is racist?

And as a women who used to strip, I can tell you that most of the men with their mouths agape looking like they wanted to devour me, were white and my fellow dancers? Overwhelmingly women of color.

Anonymous said...

FYI - I support this post and everything in it. How they can't see how that image is fucked up I'll never know.

bint alshamsa said...


If they admitted they could see it, then they'd have to own their white privilege, the unearned privilege that makes it possible for whites to produce and propagate this stuff with impugnity in the first place.

Kristin said...

Hey, thanks for posting on this! This is excellent, and, yes, Heart is every bit as much of a reactionary fundamentalist as she ever was.

One thing though: I've been following the debacle on Nine Deuce's blog (She just put the cartoon back because of the arguments made at Heart's place.), and Sis just noted that she's an aboriginal Canadian woman.
(No problem if you don't want to post this comment. Just thought you'd want to know she wasn't white.)

bint alshamsa said...


The Special White Woman award is not just for women who identify as white. It describes a certain mentality, an obliviousness that is not necessarily exhibited by whites alone. So, whether she identifies as white or not, it still applies to her.

Kristin said...

Ah, gotcha. Makes sense. And, yeah, all that she does.

Anthony Kennerson said...

Oh, damn....."AmPimp"?!?!?!

Are they STILL reliving that "Alas, a Porn Portal" controversy??? I mean, didn't Barry sell his domain, like, two years ago???

Oh, and brief memo to Blanche O'Hara Seelhoff: Hey, Heart(less), you vapid arrogant fool (because I am still too respectful of real feminism to drop the "b" word on you): Who the fuck are you to tell Black folk when and how they can describe what is racist and what is not?? If you are incapable of seeing that the use of Black people in this cartoon to sell your blatantly fascist, slanderous assault on men who frequent strip bars (and by extension, ALL sex-positive men who support the rights of strippers and sex workers to safe and sane environments for their chosen profession) simply perpetuates the most vile and crude racist myths -- the kind that caused wholesale mass lynchings of Black men -- then you are even more lost in the GenderBorg microcode than I ever imagined.

Oh...and how perfect of you to attempt to smack down us "sexist misogynist liberals" for daring to call you out on your bullshit....I guess that as much as you can take the fundamentalist sex-loathing fascist Christian out of a woman, it takes a "radical antiporn feminist" to copy it right back and turn it on its head and throw it at the same damn targets.

Next thing you know, Bint, they will be calling you not only an uppity nig......ahhhhh, I mean, a reactionary antifeminist traitor who sucks Teh Patriarchy's dicks, but also a woman/feminist hater who "trashes radical feminists" with impunity. Who knows...Stormy might even put out a call to out you.

Oh...and it's "Belledame" word, one cap. And I don't even think that Barry (Ampersand) has even said a word or lifted a finger against them, either. But who cares...he's a man with a penis who doesn't buy into subjugation to the GenderBorg collective, and that's close enough.

Well said, Bint.

(President/Founding Member of the Male Sex Pozzie Society for Getting Into Women's Panties)

belledame222 said...

-points and laughs at nonny- BOO!!

and yeah, hi, in what alternate universe did the audience all have to be easily identifiable as "of color" for it to be racist? Oh, right: The Heartland, where the (and don't you forget it, bub!) Race Traitors and (still married) Political Lesbians roooaaaammmmm...

belledame222 said...

she is...special in many ways, is Sis. by the way, Bint, have you seen this?

Sis' devotion to Heart, 's a bit,'ll see what I mean.

as my grandmother used to say, "water finds its own level." and I wash my hands; she's horrid in her own right.

still kind of pathetic, though.

belledame222 said...

-choke- Um, I don't think someone who repeatedly tells everyone how much smarter than all us other idiots she is gets to talk about what is and isn't -boorish,- thanks. Unless this is some new SupraGenius type of "manners" I haven't heard of; I suppose it could be, at that. Damn. I'm Not Worthy.

belledame222 said...

oh jesus, and she didn't even post your comment? there goes whatever left of dwindling props I had for her. buh bye then. buk buk buk. dude, either engage or don't, but you don't fucking do that, speaking of -boorish.-

Anonymous said...

my spontaneous reaction: white woman dancing/stripping in the spotlight. (most likely/mostly) white men oggling her from the shadows.

sexist? yep!

racist? (because i didn't see anyone i would immediately recognize as a 'caricature' of a black person) *shrug*

Iamcuriousblue said...

"This month's Special White Woman award goes out to Pony/Sis for the following comment"

Not to put to fine a point on it, but I'm pretty sure Pony has said she's Canadian Aboriginal, not white.