Saturday, July 08, 2006

Opting Out Of The Feminist Borg

I came across a post by Nubian on her Blac(k)ademic blog entitled "did i hurt your feelings?". Apparently, a few white people had a problem with one of her earlier posts. In "amc: the good, the bad, and the just plain sad", Nubian wrote about some of her experiences at the recent Allied Media Conference (AMC). You can read what she said for herself because Nubian is an excellent writer and I don't want to get any of the details wrong. After reading Nubian's AMC post, another blogger (Nio) felt inspired to blog about her interpretation of Nubian's experiences. After reading Nio's post "Equality in the Feminist Movement", I decided to write my comments about her views here on my blog.

Nio's message was so full of illogicality that it practically begs to be critiqued. So, where to begin? Where to begin? How about with the part where Nio tells us about why she felt left out of the feminist movement?

"Oh sure, I read the books and even went to a few marches and the like, but never did I feel like I belonged because I wasn't in college (or college educated) nor was I a lesbian. You don't have to be a lesbian to be part of the feminist movement nor do you have to be college educated but if you aren't, it's very difficult to access the organizations that promote female equality."

I think this comment is a good place to start because it provides some nice clues about why Nio felt rankled by Nubian's words in the first place. It may have been very difficult for Nio to access feminist organizations but that doesn't make her statement generally true. I wonder if she ever stopped to consider whether it might be her attitude that made it difficult for her to find such organizations. As far as I know, most of them do not offer any shortcut to membership specifically for those who have been to college or happen to be lesbian. However, if there are some that do, I seriously doubt that these outnumber the number of groups that care more about your views than they do your education-level or orientation.

"If you can access them, you don’t necessarily make any meaningful connections because you’re not in the same economic class as those who run the organizations on the local level and those who make the agenda on the national level."

I don't think that one should expect to necessarily make meaningful connections in any group. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't. This idea that one's economic level matters most to those who run local organizations is just not based on fact. I'm sure that there are some organization administrators who feel more inclined to bond with those who do belong to a particular economic class but is there any reason to believe that this is the case with all or even most of them? This is a big assumption that doesn't seem to be backed up with any facts.

"blac (k) academic’s post was on her deliberate exclusion of some. And this is the exact problem of the feminist movement and why not much has been done over the last decade. Why we've lost rights once gained. Every group, it seems, wants to self-isolate, to hear only the voices of those with the same economic background, same musical tastes, same religion, same skin color, same sexual orientation."

Right here, Nio shows that she really didn't bother to even examine what Nubian wrote. Nowhere in Nubian's post does it say that she excluded ANYONE from ANY part of the conference but that doesn't stop Nio from claiming that Nubian's comments are "THE exact problem" of the feminist movement. Pardon moi, but could it really be that this is the only problem that the feminist movement faces, that some people are unwilling to allow white people to define feminism and control spaces specifically designed for women of color? We should be so lucky! Maybe the fact that feminism (as defined by predominantly non-disabled, white, western women) just doesn't appeal to many women (in a world that is predominantly people of color, living outside of the western world) isn't really a problem to Nio but it certainly seems like a rather serious one to me. Meanwhile, I see the feminist movement as making a lot of progress but Nio might not have noticed because the much of it is taking place in areas where many white feminists just don't tend to hang out.

I could also take some time here and explain why it's impossible to lose or gain rights but I think it might be a waste of time to attempt to explain it to her at this point given how much she misunderstood in Nubian's post.

"When did it become ok to be rude and hurtful? When did it become ok to deliberatley exclude someone based on their race, sexual orientation, class, or educational level?"

Apparently, a long time ago. I can't tell you an exact date but I will say that it must have happened some time before the conference given the fact that the white woman Nubian was referring to decided to ignore the purpose of the panel and showed utter disrespect for those who were present by implying that black people should "work to not exclude whites". Personally, I think that people of color have enough to do just trying to survive in a world where we are most often the targets of exclusion based on race, sexual orientation, class, education level, et cetera. When white people become the main targets of these kinds of exclusion, then I for one would be more than happy to focus my energy on making the world a better place for them. Until then, I think people like Nio are more than capable of representing for all of the oppressed white people of the world.

"When will we get over ourselves and realize we need each other? Why do we continue to hate, exclude, expell, ignore, and put down voices that are unlike our own?"

I'm no psychic but I suspect that it probably won't happen as long as there are lots of folks who just don't value anything that doesn't include plenty of white people. I won't pretend to be an authority on this but I have a hunch that hatred and exclusion will continue as long as some people keep preaching that we should get over ourselves when so many of us have yet to experience any of the "perks" that come along with race-based, gender-based, class-based privilege. By "perks" I mean the kind like where you have the luxury of being able to believe that people like Nubian are the only thing preventing the success of feminism.

"I would’ve like to have gone to the conference blac(k) academic attended. But I can see by her post that I would have been vilified for caring, for wanting to change the world for better, for going in the first place."

Oh yes, I'm sure that Nubian and all the other people of color saved their hard-earned money just so that they could have the opportunity to vilify any white people who care, who want to change the world for the better, who dared to show up at all. Come on! Can Nio actually believe this nonsense she wrote? I really wish some people would just think before they write. Perhaps while she was busy nurturing her persecution complex she forgot that nobody turned away white people. Nobody said that white people shouldn't care, even though Nio fails to specify who it is we're supposed to believe she cares about.

"It’s too bad she and I will never be able to work together as she won’t allow me too access her knowledge and connections."

Now we're getting to the bottom of Nio's issue here. Notice the conditions that she says would need to be met for her and Nubian to work together. Unless Nubian hands over the "goods" Nio desires, she doesn't even consider it a possibility for her to be willing to work with Nubian.

"The equality movement, and us as individuals, will be the ones who suffer. Now both of us will be doing the same work twice, reinventing the wheel each time instead of working cooperately."

I am a bit curious about how Nio came to believe that Nubian will suffer from not working with her. I don't know what Nio has done with her life but I do know that Nubian certainly has accomplished a lot so far and she didn't need to share anything with Nio to get to where she is now. Is there any reason to believe that Nio will be doing the same work as Nubian? Since she isn't even able to see the value in what Nubian does, I don't think it's likely we'll see Nio tackling the problems that she doesn't even recognize exists.

In the comments section, Crys T points out that "WOC, Jewish women, disabled women, queer women, women who come from minority or minoritised cultures have other identities than Just Woman because THAT’S THE WAY IN WHICH THE WORLD TREATS THEM". To this, Nio replied

"First off, let me make this clear, you will not insult or attack other commenters on my page. There is no room here for hate. By typing this line as you have, you cut womyn into groups but didn’t build any way for them to cross from one realm into another and become aquainted with one another. Rather, you isolated them from each other making each group it’s own island. Why did you do that?"

Did this turn into a Twilight episode all of a sudden or what? Nio's comment here reveals a bit more about the source of her problems. She decided that she had some authority to speak on behalf of all women of color, women with disabilities, queer women and claim that Crys T isolated us from each other. In actuality, I felt more included by Crys T's comment than I did by anything Nio said. What's insulting is how Nio took it upon herself to make this assumption without even asking any one (from the groups mentioned) whether they felt isolated by Crys T's comment. When I want to become acquainted with women, I am quite capable of doing so myself so why does Nio think that someone else bears any responsibility for bridging some gap between groups that can do it for themselves? I think what Nio does here is a lot like what the white woman at the conference did. Instead of listening and learning, both of them decided that others should fix these problems that really only exist in their imaginations.

"I’ve been attempting to articulate that exact point: that she enjoyed hurting a white womyn merely because she was a white womyn."

Again, Nio shows that she really didn't understand what Nubian wrote at all. Nubian never claimed to be excited because she hurt a white woman. She said that she was excited because she called the woman (who disrespected both the panel and the audience) out in the room full of people, you know, the place where the woman's disrespect took place. I think it's rather disgusting that Nio would claim that Nubian enjoyed hurting a white woman because she was white. I don't expect that she'll apologize, though. I don't suppose truth-telling is a part of her definition of "polite" behavior.

The existence of people like Nio shows exactly why Nubian needed to make the comments that she did at the AMC. The ugly truth, epitomized by Nio, is that no matter how much privilege some people have, it will never be enough for them to figure it might be okay for people of color to finally get to do something that doesn't revolve around making white people more comfortable with themselves.

30 comments:

Nio said...

First off, let me make this clear, you will not insult or attack other commenters on my page. There is no room here for hate.

I wrote this on my blog, which you quoted here, in response to this from Crys T:

And Steph, I’m sorry, but to me you sound exactly like those men who are always complaining about feminists’ “defining themselves as women and not simply human.”

Steph commented just before Crys, to which Crys repsonded. That's why I put in that I would not tolerate other commenters being treated rudely.

Otherwise, thank you for taking the time to repsond to my post.

Professor Zero said...

I think the Nio problem has to do in part with not understanding the difference between prejudice and (structural) racism. A lot of white people seem to want a lot of credit for not being prejudiced at a personal level, and do not see that this is only part of the battle.

I can remember this really clearly, because when I was starting school, integration was happening. We (white kids) learned in school how and why not to be prejudiced at a personal level, and looking back, I must say that the teacher did a good job. Still, it was from my parents and the reading material they had around the house that I figured out that racism was more than just prejudice.

I'm also coming to the conclusion that it is harder, not easier, to understand such things these days.
You have to be pretty old now to remember the world before Reagan and it seems to me that discourse in general is far less clear now than it was then.

Bint Alshamsa said...

That's illogical. If it's rude for Crys T to remark about what Steph sounds like, then it was also rude for YOU to create an entire post all about what Nubian sounds like. Isn't what's good for the goose also good for the gander?

Furthermore, you did not make this comment about Crys T in response to her comment to Steph as YOUR OWN POST shows. You quoted Crys T's statement about WOC, queer women, and disabled women and directly below that you issued the command in question.

You see, you will not be allowed to make illogical and erroneous assertions here without being challenged on them and refuted by me. Otherwise, thank you for reinforcing the points that I made about your essay.

Bint Alshamsa said...

By the way, Nio, I left the following comment on your blog. If you want to, feel free to explain the hypocrisy noted within and why you have no problem instituting your own double standard.

Once again, it seems that people are forgetting that the space in question did NOT exclude anyone based on hue, race, gender, or opinion. Expecting people to behave respectfully (as the person attending the forum for people of color did NOT do) is not the same as excluding them. The double standard I see is in those who see nothing wrong with exercising their "right" to voluntary association while complaining when others do the same thing.

In one of your responses, you said you will not allow anyone to "insult or attack other commenters". Well, the only way to carry out this edict is for you to decide who will and won't be allowed to interact with others here on your page. In doing so, you are excluding all those who don't fit the standard that you prefer. If "exclusion never created anything but anger" and you don't mind purposely excluding others from discourse here, then how are you behaving any differently from what you complain that Nubian did? How is YOUR willingness to exclude any different from Nubian's?

Maxjulian said...

Excellent analysis of this post. I really enjoyed it.

nubian said...

it's funny. a lot of the folks on nio's blog that agree with her are painting a portrait of me as a hostile black woman, when in fact, they have not read anything that i have written. it's as if, they block out what i write, or only pick out some parts to position me as angry. i am so done with all of them. ALL OF THEM. there is no use in trying to build bridges because people only wanna hear what they wanna hear and usually that is whats wrong.

damn. i'm so upset. but thanks for writing this.

Bint Alshamsa said...

Nubian, I'm so-oo-oo not surprised by the majority of people who responded favorably to Nio's ignorance. I think we both realize that stereotypes about black women (e.g. hostile, "obsessed" with the topic of race, etc.) are not just spread by white men. The white, hetero-normative, western women who stand to gain by the continuance of the current system of oppression have more reason (e.g. privilege) to help perpetuate these stereotypes (about us) than they have to treat us with the same "equality" that they believe to be a part of their birthright.

I think that you've seen more than enough to be able to decide what you should do at this point. I'm really sick of how willing so many white feminists act like crabs in a bucket whenever they come across a woman of color that has become a powerful voice without being their bootlicker.

Maxjulian said...

Bint, Love your blog!

Randomly speaking:

The pity party over at Nio's blog is truly amazing, except I've seen it before. I just can't remember seeing it to this degree. Its funny how whites try to use class as a smokescreen for their racism. Racism is class privilege; whites, whether they are rich or dirt poor have class privilege over the richest nigga. I'm very suspicious when whites throw their poverty out as a mitigating factor, as if it purifies them of racism.

Nubian, you are right; they aren't interested in what you wrote. Why, you have transgressed against the Holy White Woman!

Reading Nio's blog confirms the collective insanity of afflicting white folks. I'm always amazed when I meet one whose taken the red pill and can see reality.

Bint Alshamsa said...

Professor Zero:

I wish I had been around to experience the pre-Reagan period. It's hard for me to even imagine a time when (the majority of) people were willing to talk with others and not just at them.

What I really regret is that so few people have ever been taught to think logically. If it were up to me, every one who wanted to join or create a post about racism, feminism, et cetera would be required to first learn the forty-two basic logical fallacies. It seems to me that many people (e.g. Nio) no longer believe that, when you're trying to prove something, facts are more relevent than feelings. When I find out that some of these folks actually have college degrees, I just want to ask them where in the heck did they go to school because it's got to be a crappy program that allows students to spend four years in an institute of higher learning without ever teaching them how to express themselves logically.

I guess that proverbial handbasket has finally reached its destination.

Bint Alshamsa said...

MaxJulian,

Thank you for visiting my blog! I am totally with you when it comes to whites using their poverty to claim that they are authorities on how other oppressed peoples should behave.

Yes, impoverished white people are oppressed but it certainly isn't in the same way nor to the same degree as people of color and when you compare how people of color who are in the same economic group as them fare, the advantage you mentioned really becomes apparent.

What makes Nio's rant even more disingenuous is how she claims that feminists have excluded her in the past. According to her, any hetero woman without a degree will also be discriminated against and excluded from feminist organizations. The idea that she represents these women goes up in smoke when you realize that since she is college-educated, then it's partly her fault if this type of exclusion takes place.

When I think about how some white people seem to have no problem seeing reality and calling things like they are, it irritates me when other white people (who go around claiming to be so enlightened) pretend that they aren't also the recipients of privilege. Then they want us to aid them in the fantasy they attempt to build around themselves. Well, I'm not going along with that.

I've asked my mother-in-law (who's "white") how she made the decision to go against the racism that her father tried to instill in her, all she says is that it seemed like the right thing to do. That leads me to believe that it all simply comes down to a decision that all privileged people have to make--either you'll work to help the system oppress others or you'll refuse to participate. Poverty just isn't a valid excuse for choosing the former, no matter what Nio and those like her believe.

Ravenmn said...

I am totally with you when it comes to whites using their poverty to claim that they are authorities on how other oppressed peoples should behave.

But... but ... but .... can I still blame my sociopathic father when I finally go on my mass killing spree? (that's a joke).

I don't think Nio's completely hopeless. She's just got herself caught in a logical trap she can't get herself out of. And now she's just defensive.

It's the standard white defense: to get all whiny when we are called on our racist behavior.

Somebody somewhere has got to have written a good rant on white people complaining about "rudeness" coming from militant POC. I spent some time re-reading Malcolm X this weekend to see if I could find something pertinent. I found tons of great rants, but nothing apropos to this discussion.

Thanks for your good words at nio's blog, bint alshamsa.

Blackamazon said...

Bint thanks for an awesome reading on this . Linking you

Max - I Have wondered that as well . I know hardship cause I wasn't rich. As if that negates the possibility of us having a problem with what tehy say next.

Nubian- I'm sorry homey.I doubt these peopel hear at all

Delux said...

bint alshamsa, thanks for breaking it down to the basics! What pisses me off the most about all this is that its not like women of color didnt have the same dang conversations about the same dang stuff in the same dang situations 20 years ago! I'm going to leave you with this poem from Chrystos.

Those Tears

of a white woman who came to the group for Women of Color
only
her grief cut us into guilt while we clutched the straw
of this tiny square inch we have which we need
so desperately when we need so much more
We talked her into leaving
which took 10 minutes of our precious 60
Those legion white Lesbians whose feelings are hurt
because we have a Lesbians of Color Potluck
once a month for 2 hours
without them
Those tears of the straight woman
because we kicked out her boyfriend at the Lesbians only
poetry reading where no microphone was provided
& the room was much too small for all of us
shouting that we were imperialists
though I had spent 8 minutes trying to explain
to her that an oppressed people
cannot oppress their oppressor
She ignored me
charged into the room weeping & storming
taking up 9 minutes of our precious tiny square inch
Ah those tears
which could be jails, graves, rapists, thieves, thugs
those tears which are so puffed up with inappropriate grief
Those women who are used to having their tears work
rage at us
when they don't
We are not real Feminists they say
We do not love women
I yell back with a wet face
_Where are our jobs? Our apartments?_
_Our voices in parliament or congress?_
_Where is our safety from beatings, from murder?_
_You cannot even respect us to allow us_
_60 uninterrupted minutes for ourselves_

Your tears are chains
Feminism is the right of each woman
to claim her own life her own time
her own interrupted 60 hours
60 days
60 years
No matter how sensitive you are
if you are white
you are
No matter how sensitive you are
if you are a man
you are
We who are not allowed to speak have the right
to define our terms our turf
These facts are not debatable
Give us our inch
& we'll hand you a hanky


for MAV & DENISE, who guarded the door after the incident at the Lesbian reading & thus, didn't get to hear the poetry

Maxjulian said...

Delux, thanks for sharing.

Bint, I don't think I gave you enuf props on this post. You break it down so thoroughly, scholarly, lawyerly. Keep keepin' it realz!

Bint Alshamsa said...

Isn't Chrystos an amazing poet? Thank you so much for finding and sending me this poem. I'm really starting to think the seeming blindness of those who "rage at us" is not blindness at all but, in actuality, a determinedness to protect the status quo regardless of whomever they need to mow down in the process.

Delux said...

a determinedness to protect the status quo regardless of whomever they need to mow down in the process.

Absolutely.

Maxjulian said...

Bint: Yes, yes and yes. I've come to that same conclusion.

deviousdiva said...

What can I say Bint?
Brilliant.
and the comments that follow add more insight to what is truly a great post. Thanks.

belledame222 said...

>And Steph, I’m sorry, but to me you sound exactly like those men who are always complaining about feminists’ “defining themselves as women and not simply human.”>

I'm truly not understanding how this is "rude." Seems like a perfectly valid analogy to me.

Seriously: if differences really don't matter, then why stop at gender? why be a feminist at all?

I dungeddit.

well, except, as you say: Borg.

I guess.

i dunno. I have my own stuff about all this--have been dealing with the very strange spaces lesbians, much less other queer women, truly occupy w/in mainstream and even radical feminisms, and the apparent denial about this, with increasing irritation. anyway: parallel process, but in my own way, I'm with you: I dungeddit either.

belledame222 said...

that is: I don't relate, either. To the Class Women Uber Alles (Unter Alles?) thing.

even if it weren't for the pesky sexuality business--well, who knows who I'd be if I weren't me, but: even putting that aside, it maketh not the sense to me. Or rather: it makes a little -too- much sense.

That is, i might be tempted to believe that The Overarching Oppression is indeed that of men over women; however, as a white First World upper-middle-class-derived (currently) non-disabled woman, I am uncomfortably aware that it is rather convenient for me to believe that this is the case.

sa@bonasi.com said...

Great deconstruction.

Thin Black Duke said...

Ravenmn - Read some Audre Lorde for some good rants. For example, from Sister Outsider:

I cannot hide my anger to spare you guilt, nor hurt feelings, nor answering anger; for to do so insults and trivializes all our efforts. Guilt is not a response to anger; it is a response to one’s own actions or lack of action. If it leads to change then it can be useful, since it is then no longer guilt but the beginning of knowledge. Yet all too often, guilt is just another name for impotence, for defensiveness destructive of communication; it becomes a device to protect ignorance and the continuation of things the way they are, the ultimate protection for changelessness.

Bint - Three cheers for this bad ass post.

with my nappy headed ass said...

You did a great job, Bint! Hello from another NDN sister, though I primarily identify as black.

kactus said...

Bint & Max, re: the poverty thing. We see that very clearly here in Wisconsin, where white women & women of color even in something as oppressive as the welfare system still face widespread inequality. Women of color are more likely to have their checks sanctioned; more likely to be punished for minor violations; more likely to be pushed into jobs that only demand a strong back (childcare, nursing assistance, fast food, housekeeping) and not education. After leaving welfare women of color are earning less than white women who've also left welfare. The infant mortality rate among Milwaukee's African American infants immediately after the implementation of welfare reform in 1997 zoomed an appalling 37%.

So poverty is NOT an equalizer, especially when poverty is overseen and encouraged by a system/government that is still racist to its core.

Here's an example: I was driving in the suburbs in my hoopdie, and got pulled over by the cops. I got away with a ticket for expired registration and went home. I was initially targeted for driving while poor, but the consequences, altho expensive and annoying, weren't that severe.

My friend Kesha, who is black, was driving in the suburbs in her hoopdie and got pulled over for her brake lights not working. When the cops ran her registration and found it was expired, they made her call family to come get her baby, cuffed her, put her in the back of the police car, and took her to jail, where she sat for five hours. Five hours where she couldn't feed her baby and was leaking breast milk all over. Five hours for an expired registration. Same suburb, same crime, same poverty, different race.

Professor Zero said...

What I really regret is that so few people have ever been taught to think logically. If it were up to me, every one who wanted to join or create a post about racism, feminism, et cetera would be required to first learn the forty-two basic logical fallacies. It seems to me that many people (e.g. Nio) no longer believe that, when you're trying to prove something, facts are more relevent than feelings.

Yes!!! This is a huge problem with the current culture: feelings seem to count more than facts. I wish I could figure out how that happened--too much popularization of psychotherapy??? The idea of free speech, as in, free exchange of ideas, seems to have been redeployed so as to make all opinions equally 'true', no matter how irrational some opinions may be.

Bint Alshamsa said...

Kactus,

The infant mortality rate among Milwaukee's African American infants immediately after the implementation of welfare reform in 1997 zoomed an appalling 37%.

My God! That's more than one in three infants! I wish I had enough money to offer them all a ticket to Cuba where they'd at least have a better shot at getting adequate healthcare.

Regarding Kesha's Driving while Poor/Black experience:

We've had similar incidents. My partner, The German, is actually of mixed ethnicity but easily passes as white down here in Louisiana where some of the white people are darker than the black people. He went speeding through two school zones one morning on the other side of town from us. The signs were hidden by trees, so he didn't know he was in the zones. The police officer pulled him over but didn't even issue my partner a warning; He just explained to him where the school zones began and ended and shook his hand and let him go.

On the other hand, one evening, one of my black relatives was with his date and another couple on the way to their high school prom. They happened to be driving a really nice car due to the fact that his parents aren't exactly poor. The police pulled them over, made them all get on the ground while they ran the plates and questioned them about where they were going. Luckily, none of the kids had any criminal records and one of the kids had the same last name as their parent (the car owner) who was listed on the proof of insurance. They were finally able to grovel enough for the officers to let them go without even telling them why they were pulled over. I guess that's because they weren't breaking any laws in the first place.

Bint Alshamsa said...

Professor Zero:

I suspect that this trend in the general society has a lot to do with the direction that our news media has taken. Ever since FauxNews came along and other networks saw how effective that "fair and balanced" schtick actually was, they all adopted it. Now it seems like every time I read the news, I see where they've pulled out some quack with a B.S. in Agricultural Science living in the middle of Greenland whose willing to claim that global warming, the greenhouse effect, the theory of evolution, et cetera are all unproven assertions. Of course, if the journalists allowed the logical thinkers to give more than just a "soundbyte" of information at a time, maybe they'd have the opportunity to explain all of the proof that already exists.

Yesterday, I was visiting The Onion and they had the funniest parody of this that I've ever read.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/39512?issue=4228&special=2005

While the media is only responding to what sells, I think society has suffered since our news sources abdicated their role as an entity designed to help people make informed decisions. I fear things will get even worse since it seems the current generation of children will grow up in an educational system where propagating religious fundamentalism is allowed to take up the far-too-precious time we have to instill critical thinking skills in them before they are too indoctrinated by political forces to even understand the benefits of objective thought.

kactus said...

Bint, I love everything you said about accessible language. Thank you for putting it clearly--a lot of times I try to wade through posts because I'm curious about the premise, only to find out that I either didn't get the premise after all or else whatever the premise was gets lost. And I feel stupid saying that I'm always running for the dictionary, but I am! I mean running for the dictionary, not stupid.

As a basically self-educated person, the language is intimidating. And then I start to feel like there's no place for me, stuck between illiterate livejournals kept by 15 year olds or academic jargon that makes no sense. And it's a shame, because some of those academics are intriguing, but damn!

Bint Alshamsa said...

Kactus,

Girl, you are not alone and you're definitely not stupid. If you want an example of stupidity, I can show you aplenty in Nubian's comment section. There's nothing to be ashamed of because you have to look stuff up. However, these people who actually think they see stuff that isn't even there shouldn't be so quick to expose their idiocy!

I am very self-taught too, especially since the cancer stuff happened. I keep doing all of this studying so that when I'm healthy enough to go back to school, I won't have to play a lot of catch up with the kids who have been able to take classes with no year long breaks where you forget half of everything you've learned. Well, at this point, I've taught myself a lot of subjects that they never did cover in my years of college, but still not having a degree can make me feel a bit nervous about jumping into some conversations and asking questions. So, I'm definitely in solidarity with you on this.

By the way, for the record, I've never noticed any difference between your intelligence and any of our buddies with all those letters behind their names. You hold your own as well as the best of 'em.

Professor Zero said...

Bint, "Faux" News format, yes. That does
explain a lot. I could say more, but it's late. Yours for reason & critical thinking. pz.